Chappegat Lodge #15 L2?

John Tegtmeier recently pointed out a discrepancy in the Blue Book listings regarding the Chappegat Lodge #15 L2. The scan has been adjusted to better show the detail, the ink color is a fluorescent orange and the leather is more of an off-white, although it may be aging.

Chappegat Lodge #15 L2?

As John rightly points out, Chappegat merged with Hanigus #47 in 1957 to form Mide #15. It would be difficult for Chappegat Lodge to issue a neckerchief slide for the 1958 NOAC the year after it merged.

While it would have been possible for the Lodge to have issued the slide in late 1957 prior to the merger for those members who had signed up for the 1958 NOAC; it is not the most likely scenario.

Both Hanigus and Chappegat were chapters of Mide Lodge and were known to have issued chapter items while part of Mide. Chappegat Chapter eN1958

 

The most likely explanation is that the slide was issued by Chappegat Chapter of Mide Lodge as was the Chappegat Chapter eN1958. Image used with permission of http://www.oaimages.com/.

 

My inclination is to move the listing from Chappegat #15 to Mide #15 as a Chapter issue. Does anyone know the true story?

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6 Comments

  1. Pete Grandstaff says:

    I do not know.

    The 1958 summer meeting was in late summer (last two week session running I believe into August). The meeting unveiled the merger requirement and proposal. My recollection is that we voted on doing what had to be done, that is merge into the proposed Mide.

    I have/had never seen the slide. If I could date within the year:
    the Kansas conference
    the Siwanoy merger
    I would base a judgment on that. Without those dates, I tend to think it was closer to lodge drift rather than chapter initiative.

  2. nyoatrader says:

    Pete,

    The Blue Book, Arapaho and The Order of the Arrow in New York State, all list the merger date of Chappegat #15 and Hanigus #47 as being in 1957 not 1958. Arapaho has always advised that there research was done with access to the National Charters and other documents at the National Headquarters (when it was in New Jersey) which have since been destroyed.

    Of course if the effective date of the merger was actually in 1958 it would allow the slide to be a Chappegat Lodge issue.
    Bill

  3. nyoatrader says:

    Pete replied

    I was 15 years old in 1957, and was hard pressed enough being a good Scout let alone being a good Scout historian. And I have never discovered any exact contemporary Scout friends.

    My recollection was the 1958 summer re-union according to the neckerchief was the announcement/commencement date for the lodge. But this is not reliable. In subsequent years I have regarded the Chappegat neckerchief for the summer re-union as a “death” item. Just to shoot the breeze, the main thing I remember was somebody (Cedric) standing up and explaining the new lodge invention and legend and that it was necessisty to change. We had done callouts, I thought, as Chappegat all 1958 summer long— but what lodge is doing things isn’t much featured in callout and initiation— and I have no recollection of anyone running around with Mide flaps. The flap issue as of that date was the Chappegat 2 (according to my recollection). I havejust presumed that council mergers were kind of novelty then and that the slowness of things might have meant the lodge merger occurred later than the council. But, to repeat myself, this is not reliable.

    Swallowing the loss of a lodge name for lodge 15 was likely pretty diffucult. Maybe there was a flash cut lodge change in 1957 and I was one of the last guys to get the word in 1958. And the it begins to appear the re-union in 1958 was after the fact. Maybe the merger was after summer camp in 1957 which would tend to push the awareness back to the next summer. “Lodge” was left off both neckerchief and slide.

    I think your judgment to call the slide a chapter item has no contradictory evidence. Everyone says 1957, Arapaho’s careful research says 1957. I hope to nose around a bit and be back within a month, but I’d bet against my coming up with anything otherwise. And I am now believing 1957.

    Pete

  4. Harold Crocker says:

    Hi Everyone, I would like to get more involved with this discussion as I was a Mide Lodge Member in 1964 -68. My dad, uncle and cousin were Chappaget members in the early to late 50’s. My dad was the scoutmaster of New Rochelle Troop 13 and I have recently come across a number of Chappegat items that I haven’t seen searching through google or ebay.
    I would like to post some scans and pictures of some items that I have.

    Harold

  5. nyoatrader says:

    Harold,
    Please feel free to join in. You can send me scans or pictures of any otherwise unknown Chappegat items along with any commentary and I will be happy to add them to the blog.

  6. Bruce says:

    Pete,

    The Cedric that you’r trying to remember was Cedric (Cedie) Sintzenich. He was the Lodge Advisor and held the position for several years. I was not inducted into the OA until 1960 but remember Cedie. He and Charlie Pickard, Herb Bootzen, Bob Jones and Ira Bender were adult advisors to the OA Indian Dance Team that was formed by combining scouts from both chapters.

    Bruce

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