28th Annual Northeast Trade-O-Ree

Sponsored by Lenapehoking Lodge IX

• When:Sunday, March 18 2007
• Time: 9am-2pm
• Cost: $2, scouts in uniform $1
• Where: Guardian Angel Church, East Allendale Ave., Allendale, NJ

A Flyer is available here.

ClothTalk 024 – Patch trader, collector… No: Historian.

This week the ClothTalk guys speak to Bill Topkis.  Bill was the National Editor for the Blue Book through its first six editions.  With Jeff Morely, he had amassed one of the largest collections of OA memorabilia in the country.  Here is what Ben has to say to introduce this episode.

This episode brings us part-one of our chat with master trader, collector, and scouting historian: Bill Topkis. What a great interview! We had so much great material from our talk with Bill that we’ve split it up into two episodes. Be on the lookout for part-two of this great conversation next time, here on ClothTalk.

Also this episode: Ben goes skiing on Camelback Mountain. Brandon brings us a TOR calendar update, Beep Beep talks about ConclaveConclave.com and John Pannell tells us how some lodges are using patches as motivators, as well as what makes an lodge issue official.

There was a recent post on Patch-L from Chris Jensen on the Wabaningo Lodge Emblem Handbook. For those of you who are not familiar with the handbook, it is the precursor to the Blue Book and other modern collecting handbooks. It was published in 1952 and compiled and edited by Dwight W. Bishcel. It is a small booklet running about 100 pages and measured about 5 inches by 7 inches.

The Handbook is broken into several sections, including Regional Emblems, Lodge Emblems, Lodge Totems, and Lodges Without Emblems. It includes black and white photos ( and a few line drawings) of the Emblems (patches) described in the book.

The Emblems pictured in the book are early, and in some cases the first, patch from each represented lodge.

There have been several issues of the Handbook printed over the years, and Chris Jensen provides the following help in identifying them:

#1 – Original 1952 printing. Cover stock is embossed to look like leather. Black and red printing ink on manila color cover stock. Teepee and woods design on the bottom right corner of the cover are printed in black and red. 180 x 125mm (dimension of front cover). All printing on the inner pages is on a smooth semi glossy paper with good quality offset printing (not photocopies). The particular book that I have even has a pale green order form stapled to the inside of the back cover to order more of them directly from Dwight Bishel at $1.25 each.

#2. Copy of 1952 printing (not sure who authorized this reprint). Cover stock is smooth white cover stock. Black and red printing ink on white cover stock. Teepee and woods design on the bottom right corner of the cover are printed in BLACK ONLY. The only red on the cover is the arrow. 177 x 121mm (dimension of front cover). All printing on the inner pages is on a smooth matte finish paper with fair quality offset printing (not photocopies). On the outside of the back cover, is marked in 9mm high red ink letters, “COPY”.

#3. Reprint (probably unauthorized) of Original 1952 printing. Cover stock is light green avacado card stock embossed to look like leather. Black ONLY design on cover (no red ink anywhere). 183 x 124 mm (dimension of front cover). All printing on the inner pages is on a rough finish paper with poor quality photocopy looking print. Not marked “COPY” on any pages of this book.

The images are mine, but I believe that they correspond to Chris’s descriptions.

John Pannellhas create a Wabaningo page here. There you can see the actual patches on each photo page in full color. It is probably the only time most of us will ever be able to see these patches in this format.

As you might expect, with many first issues from each lodge and certainly issued on or prior to 1952, this is not an easy set to complete. To some it is the holy grail of OA patch collecting.

There are a dozen New York Lodges represented in the WAB listings including Ranachqua #4 R1a, Chappegat #15 X3, Sisilija #19 R1, Hanigus #47 R1, Wakpominee #48 A1, Suanhacky #49 R1b, Ty-Onhi #95 C1, Wakoda #246 A1, Ta-Oun-Ya-Wat-Ha #268 C1, Tuscaroroa #284 R1, Shinnecock Lodge #360 R1a, and Buckskin Lodge #412 L1a.

It is extremely unlikely, that I will ever complete even a NYS WAB collection as the most difficult NY items are $15,000 each.

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“Art is inextricably tied to man’s survival – not to his physical survival, but to that on which his physical survival depends: to the preservation and survival of his consciousness.” ― Ayn Rand

At the Lodge #2 TOR this weekend, I acquired a new fake from one of the other table-holders. He had acquired it himself at a TOR several months back. The individual I acquired it from has a long history in buying and selling memorabilia and is not known for dealing in these types of patches.

The flap is computer designed version of the Manahattin Lodge #82 F1 or S1, and is of much better quality than the recent batch of “modern fakes” on eBay.

Both John Pannell and Bob McCanless have both weighed in on the subject of fakes from two different points of view. Although neither of them are in favor of fakes. Take the time to read them,

But to the subject at hand:

Blue Book Stats:
ZS3 ORG R WHT RED – CD fake of S1 or F1

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The time to relax is — when you don’t have time for it.Sidney J. Harris

John Pannell has an interesting post  on what makes a patch an official issue.

There are those of us who worry and debate over how patches should be classified.   In most cases this is very easy:  a 3″ round is an “R”; a chenille is a “C”.   Sometimes it’s a bit harder:  What makes a patch a “P” or “J”?     Is a triangular patch on a neckerchief an “X” or “P”?   Is a 5″ round patch an “R” or “J”?  How do you classify the very odd-shaped “flaps” issued by some lodges, that will likely never be worn on uniforms?

Beyond all this is one subject that can inflame passions more than all the rest:   What makes a patch an official issue?

It is an interesting read and currently has 10 comments as I write this.  He has examples of 8-10 patches some of which are currently listed in the Blue Book as lodges issues and some not.  It also includes the 95 ZA1 I recently wrote up on this site.

I recently postedon a patch brought to my attention by Brain Petrowski. This is the second OA piece in a series of 12 (or so) patches issued for the Diamond Jubilee of Camp Wauwepex in 1996. The first OA issue in the set, was for an OA Spring Weekend. This one is for the Fall Weekend (which I’m still looking for).

Blue Book Stats:
eX1996-3 GLD C GLD – GRY 1996 FDL; BLK 1921-1996, Diamond Jubille Camp Wauwepex OA Fall Weekend

[phpbay]Buckskin Lodge #412, 10[/phpbay]

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“You know how Congress is. They’ll vote for anything if the thing they vote for will turn around and vote for them. Politics ain’t nothing but reciprocity.” –American humorist Will Rogers (1879-1935)

Rob Cunnigham brings word of an apparently unofficial patch from Ty-Ohni Lodge #95. I am tentatively assigning it a Z designation, but based on additional or conflicting information it could wind up as an YA or an A issue.

I have another odd item for you. Attached is a patch that was awarded to ceremonies team members in 2001. It was issued by the team adviser and as far as I can tell was not authorized by the LEC.

Blue Book Stats:
ZA1 RED R WHT BLU YEL 2001 FDL; BLU Ceremonial Team, 2001 made by ceremonial team advisor