Ko-Nosh-I-Oni Lodge #34 First Flap

Roy More recently posted on When is patch a variation and not an issue? Here is a sample of a First Flap variation from Ko-Nosh-I-Oni Lodge #34.  The differences are pretty small.  The scanner washes out some of the difference in the Blue Sky, but it is a very slight difference.  The greens in the Tree are a bit more noticeable.

Ko-Nosh-I-Oni Lodge #34 First Flap S1a and S1b

The Blue Book descriptions are:
S1a BLU R M/C DOR BLU sky; BLK details in tree; DGR tree and details; FF
S1b BLU R M/C DOR darker BLU sky; BLK details in tree; FGR tree and details; FF

I think this is a candidate for an MVE designation rather than and a and b.


There comes a time in every man’s life and I’ve had many of them.
Casey Stengel
US baseball manager (1890 – 1975)


  1. Roy More says:

    I am interested in other collectors’ thoughts on this example. One of the standards of ‘whether its a variety’ I believe should be can you tell the difference without having both patches in front of you?

    I recognize that scanners and digital cameras have trouble reproducing certain colors, especially blues, but I don’t know if the above qualifies as a variety. I agree with you that it certainly is not a different issue. I’ve looked at 100,000s of patches and still can have trouble picking up some of the color shades unless both patches are next to each other.

    I also agree, that if we do identify S1a and S1b for lodge 34 that they are both First Flaps and if one is easier/more common then it needs to be the S1a. I know it should not make a difference to collectors but some do not understand that both shade varieties could have shown up to a council office in the same batch.


  2. nyoatrader says:


    I believe, based on who I acquired these from, that they are what was listed in the Blue Book as the 34S1a and S1b.

    There is some level of judgement call for MVE or Variety and with 30-50 BB editors, there will likely always be some who call it one way and some the other.

    I would be happy to have a single S1 listing adding MVE – Color of Sky, Color of Tree, of course with the First Flap designation.

    Overall, I think we are in agreement here.

  3. nyoatrader says:

    Bill Griesmyer posted the following via Facebook in response to this post:

    “I would agree with you. MVE is the way to go. These very difficult color variations shouldn’t create new varieties. Without a PMS color chip, you can’t tell the difference in many cases.”

  4. Bill Griesmyer says:

    Bill & Roy,

    Sounds as if you have it solved. No S1a & S1b. S1 all the way. I suspect that the Gonlix #34 F1 a & F1b flaps are a similar case.



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