Posts belonging to Category Whatsit?



Otetiana Whatsit?

questionmarksmallMike Hinman sends along a whatsit from Otetiana Council, Rochester, New York. Can anyone help Mike in identifying this issue?

Otetiana Whatsit?

Otetiana Whatsit?

The composition and material is reminiscent of the 1954 Area 2-E conclave patch.

A Philmont contingent piece?  The wolf is the Ty-Ohni totem and their is no known 95 Chapter that used a bull.

Can any Lodge #95 readers help Mike out?

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Every measure which establishes legal charity on a permanent basis and gives to it an administrative form creates thereby a class unproductive and idle, living at the expense of the class which is industrious and given to work.” –French political thinker and historian Alexis de Tocqueville (1805-1859)

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Buckskin Lodge #412 Neckerchief? Is It or Isn’t It

There was an auction on eBay recently which was purportedly for a unlisted Buckskin Lodge #412 Neckerchief.

While the neckerchief does not indicate the lodge name or number, the seller advises he was told the neckerchief was from Buckskin Lodge.   The design is somewhat reminiscent of the N5 through N5.7 designs from Buckskin Lodge, however each of those  eight  neckerchiefs contain the Lodge name or at least the Lodge  number.  This design  shows neither.

Does this look familiar to any of my Buckskin readers?  Without some type of confirmation, I’m not willing to list it as a Buckskin neckerchief in the Blue Book.

[phpbay]Buckskin Lodge #412, 10[/phpbay]

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The Bank collects all taxes, fines, loans and interest, and the price of all properties which it sells and auctions. The Bank never goes broke. If the Bank runs out of money, the Banker may issue as much as needed by writing on any ordinary paper.” – From the rules to the board game Monopoly.

Table of contents for Is It or Isn't It?

  1. Wakpominee #48 L1 – Is It or Isn’t It?
  2. Buckskin Lodge #412 Neckerchief? Is It or Isn’t It
  3. Nischa Nimat Lodge #181 Oddity
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Wakpominee #48 L1 – Is It or Isn’t It?

Matt Doellman recently asked the following on Patch-L:

About three years ago, I dug a scout vest with lots of early camp patches and BSA insignia from the 1930’s. On the front of the vest was a leather patch with a sitting grey (squirrel). I later found out this patch was a Wakpominee Lodge 48 L1. It is identical to the one in the International Scouting Museum in Las Vegas. Based on the other camp patches and the 1937 National Jamboree patch on the vest, it appears the Lodge 48 L1 was made in the late 1930’s. I’m trying to do a little research on this issue. Does anyone else out there have one or know anything else about it? Thanks for the help!

The patch is pictured below:

Wakpominee Lodge #48 L1

A bit of history here, the 48L1 is first listed in the early editions of Arapaho II. Arapaho II was the first national publication listing all OA Issues from each lodge and was first published in 1979. It is described as “possibly a candidate issue.” Arapaho II also had black and white photos and pictures it:

While the general design is the same, you can see there are differences. Of course they are hand-made, and you would expect some variation between samples.

But what about other New York Collector Guides?

I have previously written about Al Rosenberger’s “Order of the Arrow in New York State” Al was from Schenectady, NY and a member of a lodge adjacent to Wakpominee which was always a member of the same OA Area/Section. Al states that the L1 “is listed in Arapaho, but never issued by the Lodge.”

Bob Connor, who was the first Blue Book Editor for New York State, and who prior to the Blue Book maintained his own (unpublished) New York State OA List, did not show the 48 L1 as an issue from Wakpominee. (He did not list it at all.)

I also have a set of black and white photocopies from one of the premier NYS OA collection of the 1980’s (Don Vanderbilt) which does not picture this issue nor does it appear in Rob Kutz’s Price Realized List from the sale of that collection. Nor does it appear in the collection of Sheldon Bxxxxxx another major NY OA collector who was actively collecting in the 1970’s – mid-1990’s.

Jim Clough, himself a long term member and advisor of Wakpominee Lodge is adamant that;

There never was an L1 for Wakpominee. ….The guy who emailed me said it was made in the 30’s or so. Hey, I was in the lodge in the 40’s and there never was any leather patches made nor was there any indication that one was made in the 30’s. If something was made it was done by an individual and not an issue of the lodge. The first patch for Wakpominee was in 1948 and I was there. ………In the old Arapaho book, the first one, there is a picture of a leather squirrel, but it does not say 48 nor does it have the name Wakpominee on it.

So there you have the state of play as I know it. Two National guides listed it, but I have no provenance as to where the listing came from. All of the local sources either dispute it , don’t list it and it certainly doesn’t appear in a major NY OA collections that I am aware of.

Of course that in itself, is not proof. It is certainly possible that it was used in the very early 1930’s for a brief time and the memory of it was lost. My inclination is to amend the listing to YL1 with a note disputed provenance unless and until better, more absolute, verification can be made.

What do you think?

[auction-affiliate tool=”lister”]
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Little progress can be made by merely attempting to repress what is evil; our great hope lies in developing what is good.” —Calvin Coolidge

Table of contents for Is It or Isn't It?

  1. Wakpominee #48 L1 – Is It or Isn’t It?
  2. Buckskin Lodge #412 Neckerchief? Is It or Isn’t It
  3. Nischa Nimat Lodge #181 Oddity
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Whatsit? Moose Neckerchief

Fred McLain is looking for information on an old neckerchief he has come across.  He is unsure of the provenance, but understands it is from the 1930’s.  The neckerchief is a full square, with two moose silhouettes in the offsetting colors from the neckerchief halves.

Click on the image for a larger version.  Can anyone shed some light on this issue?

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Whatsit? – OA Ring?

Question Mark?Dick Krzyiewski sends along a couple of images of a ring he bought at an estate sale. He is unsure of its history or origins. Because of the FDL, it would seem to be Scout related. Anyone have any ideas?

I thought might be somehow related to the OA. Maybe even Canadian. If you could shed some light on either of these items it would be helpful.

OA? Ring

Side View:

OA? Ring Side view

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Ranachqua Lodge #4 Service Award?

Question Mark?An item recently appeared on eBay purportedly from Ranachqua Lodge #4. This small beaded strip, does have the owl totem of Ranachqua Lodge and a red WWW. The bead colors, shape of the owl and overall design does match what was being used by the lodge during that time frame in its neckerchiefs. I have no reason to doubt it is from Ranachqua, but have no independent confirmation either.

It is not an issue that would be listed in the Blue Book, but does anyone know its provenance or confirm its use by the lodge?

Ranachqua Lodge #4 Service Award?



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Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
George Washington

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Adirondack Lodge #357 Neckerchief? or Private Issue?

Question Mark?Roy More of TSPA recently had an unlisted handmade Adirondack Lodge #357 neckerchief available on eBay. It was described as hand painted with a red silk ribbon border. The design was reminiscent of the X1-3 patches from the lodge.

I traded emails with Ray Gould on the issue since it is his old area (2-G).

I did want you to know that I’ve been in contact with the 1959 #357 Lodge Chief (Doug Cxxxxxxx) who recalls a Scout(er) likely from Watertown, NY area who made this neckerchief as a one-of-a-kind item for personal wear. I will forward his email to you but he is certain it was not a lodge issue (confirmed by many locals). He is also certain it was not a hand-made prototype preceding creation of the #357 N-01. However, some of the similarities are striking and I would not rule out that the neckerchief served as inspiration for the N-01.

Adirondack Lodge #357 Neckerchief? or Private Issue?



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