New York OA Trader

If you check out the images in two recent posts, the first on a Thay-En-Da-Ne-Gea #418 neckerchief slide provided by Gavin Murdoch and in an earlier post on a Adirondack Lodge #357 Neckerchief slide provided by Ray Gould you can see the similarities. In the Thay-En-Da-Ne-Gea post, I recounted the following memory.

The slide reminds me of slides sold by Grey Owl which back in the day (late 1960’s and early 1970’s) sold several of these types of slides both plain and with various totems. It was a long subway ride out to nearly the end of the line in Queens, NY to get supplies for Ritual and Dance outfits.

In the comments Ray reminded me of his submission and that woke a memory.

After some digging I came across the neckerchief slide pictured below which I am 99% certain came from Grey Owl. (It was 35+ years ago) Since Shu Shu Gah Lodge’s totem was a Heron, which was not available, I picked up the generic slide below which in place of the totems on the two previous samples, pictures a Native American.

I’ll try to get a better image in the next few days.

Grey Owl may have only been a retailer of these slide and they could have been available from multiple sources.

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Gavin Murdoch sends along a scan of another slide from Thay-En-Da-Ne-Gea Lodge #418 along with his thoughts on its provenance.

The copper metal is black on the reverse and what appears to be copper painted or enameled..  The numbers and lettering is engraved down to the black. There looks like some wearing of the copper which then shows black. I also think that this was issued for the1956 2D conclave which was hosted by 418 at our summer camp Woodworth Lake.  I won’t swear to this but it all fits.

Can anyone else confirm the origins of this slide?

Thay-En-Da-Ne-Gea Lodge #418 also issued a neckerchief, categorized by the Blue Book as the N1 pictured below.

I have heard in the past, that this neckerchief is not truly the N1 from the lodge, but rather the Area 2-D Conclave neckerchief from 1956.

Can anyone shed any light on this issue too?  Hopefully this would include documentation from the Conclave Program or something definitive from the Lodge records.

Gavin Murdoch sends along this scan of a neckerchief slide used by Thay-En-Da-Ne-Gea #418 in the 1970’s.

The slide reminds me of slides sold by Grey Owl which back in the day (late 1960’s and early 1970’s) sold several of these types of slides both plain and with various totems. It was a long subway ride out to nearly the end of the line in Queens, NY to get supplies for Ritual and Dance outfits.

These days Grey Owl is an Internet Store and located in New Jersey. I have no interest or affiliation with them but not they carry beaded sashes on their site; but I don’t see neckerchief slides or OA belt buckles any where on the site.

Robert Mathis had a recent post on a chapter issue from Echockotee Lodge 200, Saturiwa Chapter R-1 . You can see the image below (courtesy of OAimages).

The Indian pictued on the patch looked awfully familiar. Take a look at this neckerchief:

Robert Mathis gives us the clue:

The Indian caricature was used by Saturiwa’s Shawnee District as far back as the 1970s, and permission was obtained from Mohawk Carpets to use their logo for this patch.

A little time with Google gives us Mohawk History:

Since its inception in 1878, outstanding products have made Mohawk the most recognized carpet brand in history. Mohawk Carpet Mills had its beginning in 1878 when four brothers from the Shuttleworth family brought 14 second hand looms from England to Amsterdam, New York.

and this little fella from a less politically correct time

The 1950s became a period of expansion for Mohawk. The Company moved south, constructing manufacturing facilities in Mississippi and South Carolina. In 1951, Walt Disney Studios designed “Tommy,” one of the most identifiable and effective company mascots in the history of American business. The “Tommy Mohawk” character was created for a series of animated television commercials with titles such as Tommy Tests Carpets, Tommy Plants Carpet Seeds, Tommy Falls for Minnie and others.

I recently bid on a lot on eBay for what I thought would be a dupe. A quick look, led me to think that it was one of the Vigil flaps from Thay-En-Da-Ne-Gea Lodge #418. The price looked right, and I didn’t look too closely.

When I received the item, I was quite surprised to find it did not have a gold mylar border.

It looks like all of the red thread has been replaced by a cream or manila colored thread with maybe a bit of pink in it. In addition to the BSA, 418 and the WWW, the arrow is also cream colored. After comparing it to the scans on OAImages, I do not believe that it is a mis-colored vigil flap. For it to be a mis-colored Vigil flap, a second mistake would have to have been made with the border color thread as well.

If you look at the border, you can see there is a red lock stitch. My suspicion is that it is an S8 error (pictured on the right). Image courtesy of The Internet Guide to OA Insignia.

Has anyone else seen the oddity below before? My inclination barring further information which may change its classification, is to use the ‘Y’ category for this flap.

Blue Book Stats:
YS1 MAN R M/C BLK MAN BSA; MAN 418, WWW, Arrow; RED Lockstitch Design of S8

There was recently an auction on eBay, that pictured a wolf’s head in profile. The image is familiar but I can’t find it on OA Images.

The seller was disposing a collection on consignment from a collector who had 95+% of the issues from Thay-En-Da-Ne-Gea Lodge #418.

To the best of my knowledge, it is not from that Lodge. It might not even be a scout patch.

Does anybody recognize the patch?

The 14th and for the time being last entry in the series on neckerchief slides comes from Thayendanegea Lodge #418. To view other entries in this series, you can click on the link or chose the neckerchief slide category from the left sidebar.

This slide is a plastic slide from Artcraft Mfg. Co. from Grand Rapids, Michigan. It is approximately 57mm in diameter and contains the wolfhead totem of the lodge.

This is the last slide or bolo from my small side-collection. If anyone else has a bolo or slide from a New York OA Lodge that they would like to share please send me a picture and any details about it. I have been promised a few so hopefully you will see more before too long.