New York OA Trader

A year ago, we posted an image of the first flap from the newly formed Kittan Lodge #364.  Kittan Lodge, was formed from the merger of Haudenosaunee Lodge #19 and Loon Lodge #364.  There was some discussion over what ‘number’  the lodge would use.   While in many cases the lower lodge number is used, in this instance 364 was used.  Part of the reason I believe is that 364 is also the number of Twin Rivers Council. 

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The Shu Shu Gah Lodge #24 TOR on November 17, 2007 revealed another new issue this time from Kittan Lodge #364. While it looks like a flap, its size would not allow it to be worn on the pocket, yet to me, it is to small to be considered a jacket patch. I think an ‘X’ designation is appropriate. The patch was issued for the 85th Anniversary of Rotary Scout Reservation.

The Blue Book stats for this one will be:
X1 RED C WHT BLK M/C FDL; WHT outlined BLK, BLK Rotary BRN WWW, 1922 2007

Another Fake has surfaced for Kittan Lodge #364. This as the number indicates, is the third fake from this lodge that is less than a year old. Gavin Murdoch, one of the blog’s subscribers, contacted the council and he reports:

I just got off the phone with council and they verified that the only lodge “issue” is the green border. The red, white and black borders are… well… what ever you want to call non official issues. The borders are the only thing different and the main part of the flaps are the same. I guess that the seller is the company from China who produced the green border and they’re simply just changing the border for resale on Ebay.

Here is an image of the ZS3

The Blue Book Stats for this one are:
ZS3 BLK R M/C RED DBL FDL; RED WWW Porcupine climbing Birch tree First Flap Fake of S1

Our favorite auction site is the source of another apparent fake from the recently formed Kittan Lodge #364. This one is from the same seller as has listed the ’standard’ Green bordered S1 and the white bordered ZS1.

Now we can add a red bordered (likely) ZS2.

The flap below is purportedly from Kittan Lodge #364. It has recently begun appearing on eBay from the same seller who has offered a number of suspicious items.

As you can see, it has a White Border rather than the Green Border on the S1. I have contacted a couple of folks in the lodge, to determine if a white bordered flap has been ordered for any reason.

The initial response I received was that it was unlikely the lodge had ordered it, but further questions would be asked.

If it was not ordered by the lodge, it will be designated the ZS1.

I recently posted on the new first flap from Kittan Lodge #364, the result of the absorption of Adirondack Council into Twin Rivers Council and the change in Haudenosaunee Lodge #19 to Kittan Lodge.

Recently a new seller appeared on eBay, Discountbar from Hunan China. He has be selling various types of patches including Scout Patches. Descriptions are generic, two piece sets are sold separately, CSP’s are referred to as OA, etc. There has been speculation on Patch-L, that this is another “Chang”; although likely not the same individual.

One of the OA flaps he had for auction was the Kittan S1. Both one traded from a lodge member and one from Hunan China are pictured below:

Can you tell which is which? I can’t from the scans. Actually the top one is direct from China. The only difference is the ‘import’ feels a bit flimsier like the Plastic Backing is not as thick. Could be a variation within the run or maybe it failed some sort of quality control. I have not seen any more of these issued by that seller; but unfortunately, it seems like there is no way to confidently tell them apart.

John Pannell had a similar post on his blog about the same seller.

Updated: I wanted two add two points to the post:

1. As Dave Scocca points out in the comments, the Lodge is referring to itself as Lodge #364 on its web-page.
2. Jonathan Grove asked me to explain the old Lodge Restrictions - Haudenosaunee Lodge #19’s regular issues were unrestricted although they did have some NOAC Delegate issues and an Honor Guard neckerchief that had a very limited issuance. Loon Lodge #364 had the reverse. Some of their anniversaries and NOAC issues were unrestricted, but all of their regular issues were tightly restricted including their one per member Death Flap.

Eric G brings word that Kittan Lodge (the result of the merger between Loon Lodge #364 and Haudenosaunee Lodge #19) has now issued its First Flap. Apparently, they will be following the Haudenosaunee tradition regarding restrictions rather than the Loon traditions.

Apparently, the Lodge totem is the Porcupine. Neither the Lodge “Number” nor Council Number appears on the flap.

Blue Book Stats:
S1 LGR R M/C RED DBL FDL; RED WWW Porcupine climbing Birch tree First Flap